Why is goku stronger than vegeta? (2024)

People always say Goku has no natural talent and he trained his whole life to become were he is. However, VEgeta DID have natural talent and he trained harder than goku, fighting stronger opponets, trained in heavier gravity, trained in the ROSAT longer, trained in higher gravity for 7 years. Is it just so the plot would be better or am i missing something?

[[Category:{{{1}}}|Why is goku stronger than vegeta?]]

Cause he's the protagonist

Goku had better opportunities to become stronger that Vegeta didn't have.[]

Goku had better opportunities and ways of training than Vegeta. Such as being able to train in the Other World (twice) and access to the Gravity Machine before Vegeta. If they both had trained under similar conditions their entire lives, Vegeta might have become stronger. When Goku died the first time, he was given training under King Kai. The Kaioken technique allowed Goku to reach power that could rival Vegeta's. During the Frieza saga, Vegeta was able to gain multiple Zenkais due to battles against Zarbon, Recoome etc. Meanwhile, Goku was able to train in under 100 times normal gravity (something Vegeta had no access to at the time). It can be assumed that Goku was able to gain a Zenkai or two while training under the gravity. He also gained a Zenkai after recovering from when Captain Ginyu stole his body. When Goku became a Super Saiyan for the first time due to Krillin's death, his power completely overmatched Vegeta's.

It wasn't until the 3 three years that the Z Fighter trained for the Androids that Vegeta finally became a Super Saiyan (probably due to his massive gravity training and desire to become one). It could be assumed that his power was somewhere around equal to Goku's at this point in time (kind of hard to tell, as Goku began dealing with the heart virus). Now, when each of them trained in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber for a day (a year) each, they both were able to reach Ascended Super Saiyan transformations. Goku saw the weaknesses in the transformation, Vegeta didn't. They were probably still around equal in power and speed at the time. But once Goku discovered the advantages of mastering the initial Super Saiyan transformation, he was able to lessen the weaknesses of the Super Saiyan transformation, such as burning to much energy at once. This means that Goku was able to reach the maximum potential of the initial transformation, he was able to reach into all of its power. Vegeta, on the other hand, didn't develop an understanding of the concept of a Full Power Super Saiyan, so even though Vegeta spent another day (year) in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, his power couldn't match Goku's.

During the seven years of peace, Vegeta continued his gravity training. But as I said before since Goku was dead (from sacrificing himself against Cell), he had yet another opportunity to train in other world, where he had absolutely no limits on his body or to his power, as Vegeta had limits on Earth. Vegeta wasn't even able to reach Super Saiyan 2 until Babidi gave him a lot more power. Goku, on the other hand, was able to reach the Super Saiyan 3 transformation while in Other World. This is when Vegeta realized that he could no longer rival Goku in power. It shows even more in Dragonball GT (if you consider it canon), where Goku trains for 10 years on Kami's Lookout, while Vegeta basically gave up training to spend time with his family. So, there you have it. I guess this should explain why Goku is stronger than Vegeta.

^Great post. I had a similar one in another fourm the only thing you're wrong about is Vegeta reaching SS2, he only let Babidi take control of him so that he could regain his evil nature and fight ruthlessly his power didn't change. He'd already stated before the World Martial Arts Tournament even began that he'd surpassed Teen Gohan from the Cell Games.

çYeah, I realized that was my mistake. Though I've read somewhere on this wiki that Babidi's control did in fact give him an increase in power, just not an overly drastic one such as being able to transform into a Super Saiyan 2. And thanks for the compliment about my post.

New poster in this discussion. But I just wanted to say that, while the original poster of this sub-section listed great reasons why Goku is stronger, in the end it only explains so much. Eventually you realize that it is because Goku is the main character, and no other real reason. I read somewhere that Akira Toriyama doesn't even like Vegeta, and that he only kept him alive and added as a recurring character due to fans. The creators of the anime must have felt the same way, because their disdain for the character showed even in their added content and the completely original DBZ movies. One great example that comes to mind is the Cooler Part II movie. Goku and Vegeta are both Super Saiyans, and for once they work together and seem on par. It's awesome. Then they're taken into the Big Gete Star and have the life sucked out of them; they both even rebound by powering up and overloading the circuits. They both pass out from being drained. But who gets up to finish Cooler? Why, Goku of course! Because the goddamn main character. It's really stupid and unfair. They even do it to Vegeta's son. In Broly Part II, a similar thing happens where Goten and Trunks pass out, but only Goten gets up. Because he's Goku's son. If it isn't Goku saving the day, it's his son(s). Every time we think it's going to change because of things like Future Trunks coming and killing Freiza and King Cold, it just goes back to course. Goku shows up (having conveniently trained on Yardrat and thus has increased power and the new instant transmission technique) and outclasses Trunks. Or what about when Vegeta unveils his Super Vegeta transformation? He beats up Cell, and seems like he's finally going to save the day. But nope, the writers decide to write that Vegeta is too arrogant to just kill Cell at Imperfect Form. And if that isn't enough, Goku, being the imicile that he is consistently shown to be, has conveniently discovered the "Super" form in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and develops full-power super sayain. And if THAT, isn't enough, they imply that Trunks is stronger than his own father. Seriously, I think the creators just have a thing for humiliating Vegeta and giving him unrealistic "a-hole" traits instead of focusing on his better ones. Like in the Cell Games where Vegeta has some serious development when Trunks is mortally wounded, and realizes that he's ignored his son and tries to avenge him and right his wrongs by unleashing everything on Cell. So you'd think in the Buu saga, Vegeta would have come around and cared for his family, right? Nope, he still treats Trunks like crap. It's ridiculous to think that he would have ever treated him that way in the first place. King Vegeta loved Vegeta more than anything, and vice-verca. So Vegeta should have the same affection for Trunks. But anyways, you get the idea.

To the guy above[]

I believe it more had to do with control.

Now that he was no longer evil, Vegeta became inhibited by the fact that he needed to exercise control for the sake of others. It's analogous to the idea that killing someone is easier than stopping them through force.

But with Babidi's control taking root in him, his inhibitions caused by his newfound morals are removed.

Babidi didn't give Vegeta any new powers as the SS2 was already reached by Vegeta. While casting the spell on vegeta babidi did say something about Restoring your power to the way it was before you decided to resist your dark nature . Although at the end although never seen, i believe Vegeta had reached SS3. Remember that at the end of DBZ, Vegeta had wanted to fight Goku once again. Even when leaving Goku realised something about vegeta since he was looking forward to have a friendly fight against vegeta once again in which Vegeta replies When we fight we need a whole planet77.243.75.31 20:05, August 28, 2012 (UTC) Gab

Super Saiyan 3[]

Goku clearly has surpassed Vegeta in strength more times than Vegeta surpassed Goku. But by the end of the series they are equal from their base forms through Super Saiyan 2. Goku is stronger than Vegeta because Goku has ascended to Super Saiyan 3 something that Vegeta never achieved unless you played the video games.

2 words...senzu beans[]

on his way to planet namek Goku was just killing himself and devouring senzu beans. Vegeta never had the opportunity to train in this manner without having to use that water healing thing which takes forever to heal someone compared to a senzu

Actually Much of it IS Natural talent[]

In the episode where Goku and Majin Vegeta fight, Vegeta tells Goku he let himself become susceptible to Babidi's magic because he knew he by himself was no match for Goku. He explicitly says "you were born with so much natural talent that no matter how much I trained, you were always a step above me" or something like that. Watch the episode. Natural talent is a part of the reason.

I actually wrote a "detailed" summary as to why I believe he is stronger.. http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:The_large_gap_of_power_between,_Goku_and_Vegeta_during_the,_Majin_Buu_Saga?t=20121009035119

Goku has always been motivated to become stronger whenever his friends' (or any other person's) lives were at stake (Example: Goku goes SSJ when Krillin dies). Vegeta is motivated by an obsession. There is no sincerity in his motivation. He's pretty selfish. His obsession with becoming stronger than Goku over-shadowed his need to protect his family. Proper motivation is key.

He Isn't - And Never Has Been[]

The contention can certainly be held that Vegeta isn't, and never has been, weaker than Goku. The percieved imbalance of raw power, and the ability of Goku to take on and defeat stronger foes, has nothing to do with actual battle strength, fighting power, powerlevel, or whatever you choose to call it. It has everything to do with Goku's upbringing. He grew up on Earth, he learned to fight on Earth, and he absorbed a uniquely Earthican way of doing things, including obtaining power.

What that means is that Goku learned to get stronger by approaching masters and learning new techniques. He thus always had a repitoire of attacks, transformations, and techniques at his disposal that was superior to Vegeta's. But this is not the Saiyan way. We know this because at no time did Vegeta ever approach anyone and ask to learn anything. This is because of true Saiyan pride, which, like a concept of honour, can easily put one at a disadvantage.

A list can be provided, at every stage, of the aforementioned advantages Goku possessed in terms not of raw power, but special techniques very often learned from other races, or advantages in transformations.

Saiyan Saga[]

Indisputably, Goku was considerably weaker than Vegeta at this time, even with all his advantages. With access to Kaioken, the Spirit Bomb, and the powerful Kamehameha Wave, Vegeta's power was clearly superior. This is understandable and expected, since Vegeta was the villain at that time.

Namek and Ginyu Sagas[]

In the Namek Saga and Ginyu Saga, it can be assumed that for a brief period, because of Goku's intense (and senzu bean cheaty-cheaty) gravity training on his way to the planet Namek, he may have surpassed Vegeta in raw power for a short time. With the Zenkai experienced by Vegeta, this gap narrowed. It may have even disappeared.

Frieza Saga[]

One thing to point out in this saga is Frieza's catlike nature. He likes to toy with his prey. Frieza always chose to suppress his true power, allow the opponent to believe they had a chance, and only increase his power when the opponent became a threat. It should be noted that Vegeta did attempt to take on Frieza in his 4th Form.

While Vegeta wasn't a match for Frieza at this stage, the reason should be considered. Frieza won by goading Vegeta, making him angry, and tricking him into questioning himself. This worked because of Freiza's 4th Form and what it was all about: Speed. By forcing Vegeta into an enraged state, any chance Vegeta had of actually landing a blow evaporated. Several times, Frieza did appear to be surprised or threatened by the magnitude of Vegeta's attacks. It appeared that Frieza intended at one time to stand in the way of one of Vegeta's large energy attacks in order to prove that it couldn't hurt him. Then, Frieza apparently changes his mind and deflects the attack instead. Therefore, the attack could have hurt Frieza. Vegeta actually had a chance, he just didn't use it optimally.

It should also be noted that Frieza didn't land any blows in this particular exchange either. By the time Frieza went on the offensive, his psychological warfare had taken full effect: Vegeta's pride was gone, he was questioning himself and his strength, and he was even crying. Frieza turtled. He concentrated all of his energy on avoiding his opponent's attacks, engaged in psychological warfare, and only attacked when Vegeta's defenses were utterly obliterated. Frieza didn't seem to have the need to do this before. Conclusion: Vegeta was a serious threat, which Goku actually wasn't. Not until he achieved Supersaiyan.

Even at Kaioken x20, Goku could barely do anything to Frieza. Frieza did increase his power to fight Goku, but the question is, how much? He said he was only using "a small fraction" of his power previously. Firstly we know the numbers don't match up, and rather than call this an inconsistency, it's quite tenable that Frieza's claims about his numbers are BS. They have to be, since scouters explode at well below those powerlevels. Whether or not Frieza is intentionally boasting, he can't possibly know his own numbers, though the Kaioken is probably more reliable since it works with specific multipliers. Secondly, there's another, very plausible spin that can be put on Frieza's slightly fishy claim. Perhaps, by saying he was only using a small fraction of his true power, he meant he was putting the rest into defense, which goes back to the previous point about turtling. The fishy part of the claim is that transformations of any kind don't appear to work that way. This also explains the muscular form "4.5" -- Frieza possessed the rather unique ability to shift his focus all along, and he was now all offense. This is what it took for Goku to defeat Frieza, even as a Supersaiyan.

In conclusion, even after intense gravity training where Goku was allowed to cheat by using senzu beans, regular-form Goku was not necessarily stronger than regular-form Vegeta. The case can be made that Goku was in fact weaker. However, Vegeta not only failed to ascend to the next form, he made mistakes. Frieza played his ego like a xylophone. Frieza had the added advantage of having known Vegeta from a child. He knew what the Saiyans could bring, so he kept Vegeta, and he watched him, and he learned his weaknesses quite deliberately. Frieza had advantages against Vegeta that he simply did not have against Goku. Besides which, psychological warfare would never have worked on Goku any more than it would work on a brick. There are advantages to being stupid. (More on this later.)

Trunks Saga[]

The most significant point to consider here is Vegeta's intense training at 300x gravity, while Goku is forced to waste time on trying to obtain his driver's license. Vegeta trains with the fervour of thinking (contention here: wrongly) that Goku has surpassed him.

Android Saga[]

Here there is simply no data for comparison, except to say that Vegeta fought (and presumably gained power) while Goku lied in bed recovering. The fact that they show Android 18 clearly outshining Supersaiyan Vegeta in combat prowess may seem bleak, but remember that at this stage, the most powerful fighters such as Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta haven't yet immeasurably outstripped the rest. The Hyperbolic Time Chamber makes that happen. Evidence? Piccolo holds his own against Android 20.

Cell Saga[]

With the Perfect Cell Saga already underway, there are a few points to note. The first is that inside the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, where both Goku and Vegeta got a chance to train, Vegeta barely acknowledged Trunks's existence, while Goku, thinking of passing the torch so that this time someone else would be the saviour, focused mainly on his son's improvement. It strains credibility that Goku would have gained more power than Vegeta from this endeavour.

Another point is that Vegeta did in fact hurt Perfect Cell. Once again, Vegeta loses focus and his pride becomes a weakness when he sees just how strong Cell has become by absorbing the last android. However, there is more than pride at work here. When presented with a stronger opponent, the greater intellect of Vegeta simply has more capacity for doubt. Goku has no such weakness. However, even then, even with his pride working against him and his doubt eating away, Vegeta manages to hurt Perfect Cell very badly with a Final Flash. Even at this time, when there is no longer evidence for it, Vegeta still believes Goku to be a step ahead. This is a recurrent theme, and Vegeta always trains accordingly, despite the fact that blowing away a large portion of Cell, just as Vegeta already did, was all Goku could do to Perfect Cell.

As for the baby Cells each beating up a character (including Vegeta), that's easy. Goku threw Cell a senzu bean, the babies had the powerlevel of Cell, and Cell got a Zenkai from that bean. He probably had a Zenkai from each of his near destructions. (And this is why having the special abilities of every race made for such a dangerous opponent. Namekian regeneration + Saiyan Zenkai = OP.)

Only the enraged, Supersaiyan 2 Gohan (who "did it right" for the first time) was stronger than Perfect Cell. After the saga is over, he quickly deteriorates, discarding powerlevel for flirtations and academia. Vegeta was the one to aid Gohan in his final defeat of Cell.

Another serious question arises from the fact that Vegeta was so tentative with his intermediate Supersaiyan 2 form. Could he have "done it right" as Gohan did? We'll never know because he didn't even try. He overcalculated, and he second-guessed, deciding the form was worthless from the outset, whereas Trunks at least tried it against Cell. Yet another case where Vegeta has a disadvatage not in raw powerlevel, but the ability to change into a higher transformation.

Babidi Saga[]

It is of great importance that Vegeta and Goku were evenly matched (as Supersaiyan 2s) when Vegeta was endowed with Majin ability from Babidi. The case will be made here that Babidi did not give Vegeta much, if anything. First of all, Babidi didn't even make any promise to Vegeta about more power. He said he would return Vegeta's power to the way it was before he changed. Yamu and Spopovich were given far, far greater strength. There is a difference, however, between turning a gnat into a fly, and turning a cat into a lion. The amount of raw powerlevel Babidi's magic can impart may be a flat amount, not an exponential increase. An exponential increase -- such as that granted from a new transformation -- has unfailingly tipped the scales in favour of even laughably weaker fighters. That wasn't what happened in the Vegeta/Goku fight, proving that this was not an exponential increase. Secondly, though Vegeta's extreme pride played a part in his ability to resist the mind control, the fact that the magic didn't fully work on him might have been a sign that he was too strong for it to really work in the first place. If Vegeta got anything from Babidi, it was simply this: An excuse. He got an excuse to be evil. He believed Goku had surpassed him, and he even tried to become more like Goku in an attempt to rectify this. He didn't see results, he was no doubt frustrated, and Babidi gave him an excuse to act out. This may have provided a release Vegeta sorely needed to realise his own potential, but it was his own potential. And let's not forget that later in this story arc, Goku himself establishes that the "dead" body (and Goku is dead at this time) has more endurance than a living one.

Buu Sagas[]

Goku does surpass Vegeta in this arc, and the gap becomes outrageous. However, it ought to be so, since Goku once more has an advantage in transformations: Supersaiyan 3. Let's not forget that Vegeta killed (or at least, forced to regenerate) Fat Buu. This is something Goku, in his estimation of his own abilities, said maybe to, if he was Supersaiyan 3. This was after having fought Fat Buu as a Supersaiyan 3 (also with his higher-endurance afterlife-granted body), and although Goku may have intended for Buu to turn on Babidi, he's not the type to actually lie, therefore his complements to Fat Buu about being a good and challenging fighter were genuine. Fat Buu, who challenged Supersaiyan 3 Goku, and was beat up to the point of regeneration by Vegeta. When Goku should have had an exponential advantage. Indeed Vegeta gave it everything he had (quite literally) but it's still a good point for comparison because they shouldn't be that close with a transformation gap, unless Vegeta was a whole lot stronger.

Let's move on to Kid Buu, and the final battle. When Vegeta runs out of energy and drops form, Kid Buu's attacks should have killed him. Even one attack should have killed him. Vegeta holding together as long as he did was a sign of his true power: His base power, which doesn't often come into question in a world where people are always learning new transformations just in time to fight the next, new, even more powerful enemy. Kid Buu is simply too much of a hyperactive, attention-defecient maniac to toy with someone for that long. Frieza, yes. Any other Buu, yes. However, in this particular battle, Vegeta stays alive against what is certainly the full brunt of Buu's attacks. Vegeta did at least as well as Fat Buu, and he did it in his base form. Without a doubt, Vegeta is the strongest character in the Dragonball universe at this point.

Now let us examine Goku, and the how and why he actually won. First, he used a Spirit Bomb, and he needed all the energy the people of Earth could give. Yet another case of Goku's repitoire of techniques tipping the scales in his favour. Secondly, as has been said, he had the powerful Supersaiyan 3 transformation at his disposal, but there's another issue here, and that's Goku's energy problems. He can't stay in this new form for long, and it drains his energy quickly. One wonders why exactly that is when Gotenks didn't seem to have that particular issue. So let's conjecture. Perhaps it wasn't just a matter of Vegeta attaining his transformations late, but Goku getting them early. Goku, with his natural wisdom and (let's put this politely) zen-like emptiness, has one of the better supplies of spiritual energy when comparing all characters in the series. Why should he falter now, if not because he simply wasn't quite ready to take that form? He learned it in Otherwold, where his supernatural body was supernaturally strong. He could barely make the change elsewhere. Could he have actually learned the form if he hadn't been dead? There's a case for a no.

As a final musing at the close of Dragonball Z, Goku's bountiful energy supplies have been a factor all along. Other characters falter and fall because they plainly get beat up. Goku launches massive Kamehameha Waves and drains himself empty. This fighting style is available to him because he's got it to spare. It makes him seem stronger, but he isn't. It's a lot like going overboard min-maxing your D&D character when you're running with an easy-handed Dungeon Master who's not going to kill you. We know the heroes have to win, so Goku isn't losing out by being incredibly offensive. (heh)

Dragonball GT[]

Just a few main points here, since there's an issue with the cannonity of this series. We'll skip the fight between Baby Great Golden Oozaru Vegeta and Goku, because it's difficult to say how much of that was Baby, how much of it was Vegeta, how much of it was the added Saiyan energy, and how much of it was a bit of a cheat from Bulma's moon ray. One thing to note, though, is that Vegeta was a transformation lower than Goku, and was more than a match for him. It can't really be said which counted for more, though.

Now, on to the part that matters: The fight with Omega Shenron. Finally, at long last, Vegeta and Goku are in the same transformation! Here we can finally have some meaningful comparison. So here goes: Vegeta's stronger. Vegeta held his own against Omega just as well as Goku... Goku who had just recieved a huge dose of Saiyan energy from his friends, and gone past his usual Supersaiyan 4 potential. "Now this is a power you ought to be afraid of." he told Omega Shenron, after recieving the extra energy. At this point he was even with Vegeta -- even enough to fuse. And it is very well established that the two people fusing have to be about identical in powerlevel, which can be fine tuned only a little by one party reducing their energy. Then there's the issue of reducing one's energy while transformed. Expectation would be that it would simply cause a drop in form; that that much power output would be needed to maintain the transformation. And once again, Goku finally wins by using stolen energy, then, after spending all his time and all Hercule's money on training that human child, he at last passes the torch... To Vegeta.

Case proven and rested. Quid Errat Demonstratum. Vegeta isn't, and never has been, weaker than Goku. It was the ultimate joke of the series.